Number of deliverances – 12
Length of report – 63 (Gosh!)
Whats the report about?
The report is about the work of the Legal Questions Committee. They consider if church law should be changed for any reason, often referring to Church of Scotland Acts of Assembly, and standing orders
Whats the key point of the report?
The key point of the report is the new discipline act that is presented as an overture*. It is unveiled in all its glory for us to radiate in, or consider fully. It all depends whether you are a radiating or considering type of person.
*(A technical bit of language which in general means they vote this General Assembly, if is yes, it passes to the presbyteries for consideration over the next year. If a majority of presbyteries vote yes, then it returns to General Assembly next year for the final vote. It could fall at anytime in the process requiring 3 yes’s to become church law. Overture usage is governed by standing order 28
Thought on deliverances.
1 – Yes
2 – Yes
3 – Yes
4 – Yes
5 – Yes
6 – Yes
7 – Yes
8 – Yes
9 – Yes
10 – Yes
11 – Yes
12a – Yes
12b – Yes
12c – Yes
Thoughts on the report.
1 Amendments to standing orders
1.1
The seconding is not formal in term of a speech at general assembly, is that reflecting practice or narrowing up on the time issue?
2 Consultation on membership of church courts
2.1 background to the consultation
Elders are not doing their job by presbytery and Kirks session. this should be changed from duties and responsibilities, to entitlements. Does this set up Eldership as above the congregation which is not the point of ministry of all believers?
Presbyteries
2.2.8
How was presbytery responsible if fulfilling its remits, it call comes down to the clerk? presbyteries are controlled by the clerk to some extent. fulfilling their remits come down to him or her.
General Assembly
2.2.10
Minsters should attend 3-5 years in rotation. About 4 then?
Elders should represent congregations not charges. Yes but I am not from a joined charge which has multiple congregations.
2.3
Church court act, details what each court does? Is there enough evidence that change is desired to change?
3 the ordination by presbyteries act and parish ministry act
The adoption of a new ministry act which has the deacons act and professors and lectures act in it. Yes easier to understand.
4 review of disciplinary acts – a discipline overture
this will see four acts into food into one single act. Yes
5 Legal aid regulations.
5.1 “On one estimate, ministers receive more than ten times the benefit in terms of legal funding which they might expect to receive in the civil sphere, were they to have access to Employment Tribunals.”
One estimate, what about others estimated provided to the committee, is this normal or abnormal suggestion.
5.2
Legal aid to minister, extended to elders and other office bearers. yes
5.3
Test is (a) is legal representation necessary or (b) can you afford to pay for it. Means test (b) applicant and spouse/partner. Disposable vs capital detailed in part 3 of the regulations. Yes Legal Aid should be available for those who cannot pay for it.
6 Reduction in the size of the pool for the judicial commission
7 Interim updating of Act III 2001 and act 1 2010 as to safeguarding offences.
8 Further minor amendments to act IIII 2001 (discipline of ministry)
8.2
Who deleted the note? When was it deleted?
9 Same Sex Marriage ceremonies
9.1
as GA did not specifically instruct a policy, the committee has not written a policy at the moment. I thought GA2017 was clear about a policy being written?
9.1.2
Those who wish not to change should be protected legally by the church. Yes they should.
9.3.1
the way forward.
9.3.2
Proceed as section 9(1a) the Marriage (Scotland) Act.
Default no, but some ministers officiating as they apply.
9.3.3
3 years to conduct Same Sex Marriages as determined by the registrar.
9.3.4
The minister may say yes, but how we protect church officers. e.t.c. there is the need for Church legislation to protect those who choose not to change.
9.3.5
There is further work necessary to do on English law or another law.
9.3.6
The advice is not future proofed.
9.3.7
They have done what is asked.
Need for a new remit to be given to undertake this work by General Assembly.
10 virtual or remote attendance and participation in church meetings.
10.1.3
Point b being dealt with as ongoing piece of work, reporting to General Assembly 2019
10.1.4
The committee have no issues with online church
I can think of three.
How does a membership organisation like the Church of Scotland change to engage with the online world where people are multiple members of multiple sites?
What does a Kirk session of an online church look like?
What how does an online church carry and presbytery representation?
10.1.4
“…no immediate issues of concern from its current practice…”
shocked face. The committee believes the online church is a meeting of members. the Democratizion of technology is here, Parishes are getting bigger, and more CofS churches using the internet for mission this needs consideration and questioning.
10.1.5
The Church of Scotland online not online church, the viewpoint is the online being is subservant to the church member identity, not the online identity being primary. Is sanctus one is a meeting place for those who are already members of the Church of Scotland?
10.2.2
Injustice by excluding others by virtue of not meeting together. Injustice where online platforms exist but aren’t used. We should be against injustice.
10.2.6
Blanket approval for this use.
Good. We should use it where it is useful and available. Doesn’t replace being in the room form a meeting though.
11 presbytery review.
More please
12. Examination of records.
Appendix A
amendment to Standing order 95 Trying to limit speeches. After being at General Assembly 2017 very few speeches were made, and those that were were of variable quality.
Appendix B
Leave to the ministers to fight out!
Appendix c
Disciple act overture
Yes to it
Appendix d
They say after 6 months the tie of pastoral ministry is broken, but the Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland is away for 1 year. What is the pastoral tie there?
Appendix E
Yes
Appendix F
Yes
Appendix G
Yes
Appendix H
Yes
Appendix I
Listened to
Questions or amendments or suggested new deliverances.
Appendix D – Says after 6 months the tie of pastoral ministry is broken, but the Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland is away for 1 year. What is the pastoral tie there?
Section 10 – States the Committees belief that online church is a meeting of members, therefore, no consideration is given to the uses of online church as mission as this isn’t happening at the moment. Will the committee to look at this issue as missional should that be put to the convenor as normal practice, and what is the targets would the convernor need to achieve before that review takes place.
Amend – a new number 11 and renumber
Instruct the Legal Questions Committee to carry out the work associated with 9.3ff and present a new/amended act/acts in line with conclusions detailed in the report at section 9.3ff
Link to previous Reports to General Assembly
2017
Reading the Blue Book, 2024 edition 